EP136 The One About Foods That Seem Healthy But Aren't

Transcript Of Today's Episode

Dr. Martin Jr: Hi, I'm Dr. Martin Jr.

Dr. Martin Sr: And I'm Dr. Martin Sr.

Dr. Martin Jr: This is the Doctor's In Podcast. This is episode 136. Today we want to talk about seven [00:00:30] foods that seem healthy, but are anything but. This is really something that ... We analyze a lot of diets that come into our clinic. These are really seven common foods that people would almost say that they're eating proudly, because marketing has been done so well, that they actually think they're eating something that's good for them, when in fact, it's not good for them at all.

For some people especially if they have any kind [00:01:00] of metabolic disorders, high insulin, or pre-diabetic, anything like that, or autoimmune disorders, these things are making them worse, and then making them more susceptible. Let's kind of go through the list of the seven foods that we hear from people that they've been duped.

All right, so let's just go through the list, no particular order really, but we'll start with probably number one, and then after that, there's really no order. This one here is something that if we were do a food diary [00:01:30] on most of our patients, pretty much every one of them would start their day off with this.

Dr. Martin Sr: And it's called?

Dr. Martin Jr: Yogurt.

Dr. Martin Sr: Yeah.

Dr. Martin Jr: Right? Now listen, yogurt's come a long way, Greek yogurt, there's plain Greek yogurt, and then you can naturally sweeten it up, but we're just talking about the average yogurt that's consumed every morning. Listen, you've seen the commercials, I've seen the commercials, they do a good job making it seem like yogurt [00:02:00] is very good for you. You had said that that's the, what? Number one ...

Dr. Martin Sr: The number one choice of women for their breakfast in Canada and the United States. Number one.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, it's a massive ... I remember talking to this woman who, her job was, she would sell food into grocery stores all across Ontario. She was telling me how that was. I mean, yogurt. They sold so much yogurt.

Dr. Martin Sr: [00:02:30] Well, if you think of it, if you back even when you were a kid, it wasn't anybody in the universe other than people that were living out on the land or something like that.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, because you had to make it.

Dr. Martin Sr: They'd make their own yogurt. You know, you could actually get a kit. You still can, I'm sure.

Dr. Martin Jr: And it's so bitter.

Dr. Martin Sr: Well, I mean, it's sour milk. I mean, why would you want to eat that, right? The food industry, you've got to give them credit. I always say, like man, I'd tell you ...

Dr. Martin Jr: Listen, they know what they're doing.

Dr. Martin Sr: They can take anything that's [00:03:00] bad for you and make it look like it's the greatest thing. I watched them do it with cereals. People that started their day eating bacon and eggs, when that was ... "Hey, don't eat that, man. That's no good for you. Eat our Special K and Cheerios and Fruit Loops." I mean, they just duped everybody. Like, "This is the greatest thing. It's good for you." They even put a heart on the box, right? Ensuring that you're going to have a heart attack if you eat [00:03:30] it.

Dr. Martin Jr: All right, let's get back to yogurt. Yogurt is really deceitful on two fronts. It's really marketed in two ways really. One is it's marketed as a kind of a natural way to get probiotics.

Dr. Martin Sr: Yeah, which is crazy.

Dr. Martin Jr: Which they rarely provide.

Dr. Martin Sr: You wrote a newsletter once that said that if you ... To get the amount of probiotics that we have [00:04:00] in one capsule ...

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, one capsule of our probiotic complex ...

Dr. Martin Sr: How many?

Dr. Martin Jr: 16,000 four ounce containers of yogurt. You'd have to eat 16,000 of them because ... Yogurt has a few issues. One is there's not a lot of ... It's not a broad spectrum type of a probiotic that you're getting.

Dr. Martin Sr: No. It's some acidophilus in it, but even then ...

Dr. Martin Jr: And you're talking millions of them rather than billions.

Dr. Martin Sr: Then it's pasteurized.

Dr. Martin Jr: Then it's killed in the stomach acid a lot of times too, right? Because they're not [00:04:30] really made to get through the acid of the stomach. It really is not ...

Dr. Martin Sr: People tell me that. Like, "Oh I don't want to take a probiotic because I'm eating yogurt." Yeah, well good luck with that.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, it's not a good source of probiotics. I mean, there's probiotics in it, but they'll say this with everything. "it's a good source of this." It's like, "Well, yeah, not really." Yeah, it does have some of that in there, but you definitely do not take yogurt for ...

Dr. Martin Sr: And read your labels. Look at how much sugar's [00:05:00] there.

Dr. Martin Jr: That's the other thing. So, yogurt has been marketed successfully as a low-fat way to start your day, with no regard to sugar content at all. So a lot of the yogurts, especially for a while ... They've fixed this up a little bit. They've been cleaning it up a little bit. But a lot of the yogurts that people have been eating for a long time contained a lot of sugar. I mean, you can imagine what their blood sugar levels were like shortly thereafter. You can imagine. They were just loaded with sugar.

Dr. Martin Sr: Well, take the [00:05:30] fat out of it, too. Like yogurt should have a lot of fat in it.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, a lot of fat and a little bit of sugar because again, the worst thing that you can combine really ... A lot of our problems today are combining sugar and fats, rights? High-processed vegetable oils, and then in high sugary food, which is pretty much every processed food on the planet. But that really causes some real issues. So yogurt may seem healthy, it may be marketed as healthy, but it definitely isn't.

Now, are there yogurts [00:06:00] out there that are better for you than traditional yogurt? Yes, of course. For example, Greek yogurts tend to have more protein in them.

Dr. Martin Sr: But if you got any trouble with dairy, too. I mean, dairy can be very inflammatory for a lot of people. Oftentimes, they might get away with eating a little bit of cheese, but they cannot ... Because there's no sugars in it. But we talk about this with our patients a lot. You got a bad gut ...

Dr. Martin Jr: Yogurt can be very hard on it.

Dr. Martin Sr: Eliminate the dairy to start. [00:06:30] You gotta find out if that's irritating your gut, because you know you have a lot of mucus. You're forming a lot of mucus. You know, one of the things you look at is dairy. Yogurt is, like I said.

Dr. Martin Jr: A lot of people clear their throat after eating yogurt or eating cereal in the morning. They tend to be clearing their throat a lot, which again is an indication that they got like a subclinical allergy almost to it.

All right, so let's move along, but the first one is yogurt. That's a big one. You're better off eating bacon and eggs for breakfast than you are relying on [00:07:00] protein just from yogurt. Because yogurt has some protein in it, but it's not a high source of protein. I know they'll market it as a high source of protein, but really you're not getting a ton of protein.

Dr. Martin Sr: So if you're gonna have it, Greek plain.

Dr. Martin Jr: That's right. And then sweeten it with some cinnamon and throw some other things in there. We'll talk about another thing on this list that's later not to throw in there, but ... So that's the first one was yogurt.

The second one that ... Let's talk about this, because this is another thing a lot of people eat a lot of are granola bars or energy bars. Very common, right? First of all, a few [00:07:30] things that's interesting. Granola doesn't stick. It's not sticky. A granola bar that sticks together needs like a glue. If you go through and start reading the ingredients, they're not just using like honey or anything like that. It's got a lot of stuff in there to make the bar hold together.

Like I said, you make a granola, it doesn't just stick to itself and make a nice bar, and you crush it into a bar. That's not how it works. So even from that aspect alone, [00:08:00] a lot of the bars, in order to hold in place, that alone. Also granola tends to be highly sweetened. Granola cereals and that, go look at the sugar content.

Dr. Martin Sr: It's crazy.

Dr. Martin Jr: Again, this is something that kind of irritates me a little bit is what they should be doing is this, and there's a reason why they're not doing it. When you look at something that says 24 grams, what does that even mean? How do you even ... I did a lot of biochemistry [inaudible 00:08:29]. [00:08:30] I took micro organic chemistry. So we're working in like little tiny amounts.

If I say to you, "visualize 24 grams", well 24 grams of what? It's very tough to visualize. It is. It's a tough thing. And sugar, what does that even mean? But when you start to figure that there's roughly ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Six teaspoons of sugar.

Dr. Martin Jr: That's right. So one gram is ... Four grams is a teaspoon. Then all of a sudden it makes a little bit more sense. I always figure that [00:09:00] they should have ... See, if I was running things, I would have a graphic of teaspoons, rather than the grams. So if something is 24 grams, you would see six teaspoons.

Dr. Martin Sr: And people would be grossed out by that.

Dr. Martin Jr: Sure. I saw a drink, we were laughing about it the other day. It had 56 grams of sugar. I'm no good in math, but that would be a lot of teaspoons. You would have to increase the size of the label to show the amount of teaspoons that are necessary. I just think it's [00:09:30] a better visualizing ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Because actually put, like you said, teaspoons.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, you think of 12 grams. You're like, "Okay, 12 grams. What does that mean? It's not that much." Then you're like, "Oh, it's three teaspoons." So think about that for a second.

Dr. Martin Sr: You put three teaspoons of sugar in your coffee ...

Dr. Martin Jr: That's a lot.

Dr. Martin Sr: You got a lot of sugar in there. Your nephew and my grandson, and of course your son worked at Starbucks. So they know all about this, but he had me laughing the other day because he said a guy came in at Tim Horton's, [00:10:00] and he literally wanted six teaspoons of sugar in his medium coffee. Six teaspoons!

Dr. Martin Jr: Did they give him a shot of insulin at the same time?

Dr. Martin Sr: But he was telling me in the cup, by the time he put six teaspoons in there, like a quarter of a cup, of that up of his coffee was sugar.

Dr. Martin Jr: That person does not like coffee. If he needs six teaspoons of ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Why bother? Why didn't he order just a latte or whatever else that they have that's full of sugar?

Dr. Martin Jr: [00:10:30] That's why I'm in favour of something visual to help people understand quickly.

Dr. Martin Sr: Well the food industry gets away with it.

Dr. Martin Jr: Well no, and they keep it in grams because grams is very tough. We understand ... Even then, we don't look at say, "Well, that has 24 grams of protein. Okay, whatever. 24 grams of sugar. Okay." We'll say, "Oh, that's a high protein food." But we won't say that's a high sugar food necessarily. I think the teaspoon is just an easier way for people to grasp ... Because again, a great [00:11:00] experiment is grab a glass, fill it with water and then go grab the average soda or pop, and just, if it's got 24 grams of sugar, load it up with six teaspoons and take a drink.

Dr. Martin Sr: 24 would be almost a diet pop.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, I know.

Dr. Martin Sr: I mean, you're looking at 30, 40, 50 grams of sugar.

Dr. Martin Jr: So that's the issue that we have. We kind of went off-topic a little bit there.

Dr. Martin Sr: What's new?

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, granola bars tend to be sweetened, [00:11:30] they tend to be held together by unhealthy ... Yes, it's not a natural way to keep things together at all. So that's one of the problems with granola. So that's the second one.

The third one we kinda hinted on a little bit, we kinda talked about as well, which is ... There's this idea out there that fruit smoothies are healthy. We're not against fruit. I love fruit. The problem is when you squish a bunch of fruit together, and liquefy it, that's all of a sudden not that healthy. [00:12:00] High sugar ... you know, nothing worse than drinking sugar too, by the way. Really hard on the liver.

Dr. Martin Sr: God wanted you to eat it, not drink it.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah so again, throwing a fruit in a smoothie, no big deal. Making a fruit smoothie, that's a whole different thing. Now you see these juicer places all over. These kids are getting real big. Kids love these smoothie places. They get fruit smoothies and they're ...

Dr. Martin Sr: You gotta have the Dr. Martin's Perfect Smoothie, right? Which is a much different thing. Yeah, [00:12:30] you can add berries. But it's high protein. We don't talk about you go squish grapes and bananas and berries ...

Dr. Martin Jr: They'll just throw a whole bunch. Listen, who doesn't like a good fruit smoothie here and there? We're not saying not to drink them, but they're a treat. They're not as healthy as you think they are.

Dr. Martin Sr: A lot of people eat way ... And especially like you said, drink too [00:13:00] much fruit. They do. I call them God's candies. Like look, you know what? The world's changed. Let us just ... We're putting a little bit of a disclaimer because we love fruit. Like you say, fruit is good for you.

Dr. Martin Jr: Especially summer time. I mean, fruit in the summer is ...

Dr. Martin Sr: But if you have trouble with insulin, if you have trouble with uric acid, if you have trouble at all with wheat. You know what I mean? We live in a different world today [00:13:30] because there's so much sugar hidden in everything. Now you're taking something, "Oh doc, I eat a lot of fruit." Yeah, well maybe you shouldn't eat as much fruit as you're eating.

I'm not saying it's not good, but it may not be good for you as an individual because your insulin's already high. You got uric acid, you got joint pain. We talked last week about joints and uric acid, and that kind of thing. So anyway, it just, like I said, understand where we're coming [00:14:00] from because of what we see in the office every day.

Dr. Martin Jr: All right, so let's go on. Really this is two categories, but it's kind of the same reason why, would be gluten-free foods and vegan foods. Now, a lot of gluten-free foods and a lot of vegan food are really fake foods. High, high sugar. High, high processed foods. You go down to the grocery store now that has a gluten free section. It's like a candy aisle.

You know what's really interesting, too. A lot [00:14:30] of what they use in the breads or they use in the cookies, the type of flour in the sense that they're using is highly insulogenic. I mean really spikes your insulin more than other types. Again, the best gluten-free food is ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Low carb.

Dr. Martin Jr: Low Carb. Now again, a lot of times they'll throw ... For example, you go in a grocery store, you go into the organic section or the healthy section, like "Oh, that's the healthy aisle." [00:15:00] You'll see a lot of the same stuff. You'll see a lot of healthy granolas which are really high sugar. Now listen, they'll dress it up as cane sugar, but sugar is sugar. Doesn't matter what the surname is. Mr. Sugar, Cane Sugar. I don't care what your surname is, it's still sugar.

Dr. Martin Sr: Yeah, they're not using the high-fructose corn syrup but who cares?

Dr. Martin Jr: No, that's right. They're using cane sugar, or they're using some variation of that.

Dr. Martin Sr: Coconut sugar.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, that's right. I mean, is it better? Yeah, it is better. [00:15:30] However, it's still sugar. Your body biochemically reacts as if it's sugar. It doesn't react like it's not sugar. Now, it might not be treated with chemicals, and there's some advantages to that. But let's be honest, your body is going to react to that like it's sugar. No question, right?

So going to that healthy section, you go into the frozen part of that section, you're going to see a lot of vegan desserts. They're sugar. They may not have anything living in it, but understand that it's still ... [00:16:00] There's nothing healthy about that whatsoever. Because it's found in the healthy section of your grocery store, and it's in that freezer with the healthy food ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Read your label.

Dr. Martin Jr: It's still ... You're eating sugar. It may be vegan sugar, but it's still absolutely high, high sugar. Marketers are smart. They throw vegan in front of it and people think it's healthy. Liquorice is vegan. Just because vegan in front of it ... I mean, it's [00:16:30] smart. It's marketing. People associate vegan, even though we can talk about that another time, they associate vegan with healthy, so therefore this vegan dessert must be healthier. That's not the case at all. It's not a health thing at all.

The same thing goes with gluten-free foods. A gluten-free cookie is still a cookie. It's still got a lot of sugar in it.

Dr. Martin Sr: Well, they have to. Think about it. The second you take gluten out of food, a lot of taste, it comes out of it.

Dr. Martin Jr: That's the difficult thing.

Dr. Martin Sr: [00:17:00] What do they gotta do to make it taste good? Sugar.

Dr. Martin Jr: All right, so let's move on from there. Here's another one as well that's starting to pop up a lot. You see this a lot in grocery stores are veggie chips. There's a couple problems with veggie chips.

Dr. Martin Sr: I don't like the colour of them.

Dr. Martin Jr: That's judging a book by its cover. But I mean you see veggie chips all over the place. There's two problems. Here's the thing. The worst thing you can do is combine fat [00:17:30] and carbs together. That just kind of like ... It's too much energy. It's energy dense. So you burn the carbs off as energy right away and that fat then kind of gets broken down and stored as fat. Does fat store as fat? No. But you throw carbs in there ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Like poutine?

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah. That's one of the problems. The other issue is ... So they're carby. Then some of them might be less carbs, whatever. But man, I'll tell you. They are just loaded with crappy, crappy vegetable oils. High-processed [00:18:00] oils that just ...

Dr. Martin Sr: You could run your car on those things.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, it kills your digestive lining tract, leads to leaky gut.

Dr. Martin Sr: Very inflammatory.

Dr. Martin Jr: They're just no good for you. And that's one of the biggest ... There are two things that we do too much of today. We eat way too much sugar, and we consume way too much vegetable oils. Vegetable oils, they sound healthy. Let's call them Vegetable oils, vegetables are healthy.

Dr. Martin Sr: Canola ...

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah. I got a good idea, let's name them vegetable oils. [00:18:30] They're not healthy. They're highly inflammatory ...

Dr. Martin Sr: They're the farthest thing from a vegetable, too. Believe me.

Dr. Martin Jr: So a lot of the issues with these veggie chips is that they're highly processed, vegetable oil chips. They're not a healthy alternative. They got the same carb count a lot of times, so they're high carb. If you're going to eat them, eat them because you enjoy them and understand that you're getting a junk food. It's not like, "Oh, I'm having my veggies in a stick."

Dr. Martin Sr: [00:19:00] It's not broccoli.

Dr. Martin Jr: No. Definitely not broccoli, and it's definitely not as healthy as people think they are.

Dr. Martin Sr: It's amazing though. Again, they come back to the food industry, how they market it. They're good at it. I give them credit.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, and they put a lot of effort perceived healthiness. That's a big part of marketing. Because whenever you see a commercial for these things, it's always healthy individuals running and stopping for a snack and having a little bit of veggie chips. So it's just ... Anyways.

All right, let's [00:19:30] go on to the ... We got two more, we'll talk about these quickly. Here's another one as well. Bottled green juices. You're starting to see these popping up more and more.

Dr. Martin Sr: They're common in the grocery stores now.

Dr. Martin Jr: If you actually look at the label, 40, 50 grams of sugar in a lot of these things. Again, if you do that by teaspoons, that's a lot of teaspoons of sugar. Especially when they put ... And this is another issue as well. If you're a juicer at home, a lot of people start off, they'll add apples to it. Because apples can hide the taste of a lot [00:20:00] of things. But a lot of these commercial smoothie green drinks, they're apple juice ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Concentrated.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, with a lot of apple juice in it. Then they throw this stuff in there. So it's a high sugar ... That's a lot of sugar. It's just not ... They're not healthy. The sad thing is people really think that they're going healthy without realizing that they're spiking, they're killing their blood sugar levels. They're secreting a ton of insulin. They're [00:20:30] putting fat around their liver. It's not healthy at all.

Dr. Martin Sr: They're negating anything they think they're getting from green. Because green is good. It's chlorophyll, it's wonderful, but not the sugar.

Dr. Martin Jr: No, not the sugar at all.

Dr. Martin Sr: You're negating all the benefits. You're making yourself acidic when it should be an alkaline drink. Think about that.

Dr. Martin Jr: You know, the sad thing is is that a lot of this ... If we just turn around and look at the label and looked at the sugar content. Without looking at anything else, a lot of these foods would be disqualified [00:21:00] as healthy right off the bat.

Again, what's frustrating is that government agencies will list foods as healthy without any regard to the amount of sugar that's in them because they sound healthier, they perceived as healthy.

Dr. Martin Sr: Well you know, one of the things that we talked about, uric acid and joint pain. I talked about it before, and I can talk about it again, but just like some people say, "Well, how much sugar am I aiming for, Doc?" Well, usually I say, "Look, if you're suffering uric acid, [00:21:30] keep your total sugars, total sugars, add them all up, under 15, 20 grams a day." That's not much. So if you're getting a green drink that's got an apple base, you're already over.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, for the next three days.

Dr. Martin Sr: Yeah, you can't have another stinkin' gram of sugar anywhere. You know, "oh, I got berries." Well yeah, berries are real good for you, but if you're adding them up and you already had a sugary drink that [00:22:00] you weren't even thinking is ... "Oh it's green." But it's got ... You gotta add it all up. So yeah, people ...

Dr. Martin Jr: Here's another one, and this is the last one here. This one really did a good job. I mean, they snuck this one in here. A lot of people talked about this, you've read a lot about it, which is agave as a sweetener.

First of all, go look at how it's made. There's nothing [00:22:30] natural about how agave, agave syrup especially, is made. There's nothing natural about it. It is loaded with high fructose corn syrup. It is broken down like sugar. It's a liquid sugar.

Dr. Martin Sr: Goes right to your liver.

Dr. Martin Jr: It's just not healthy at all. I mean, it's not a healthy alternative, but a lot of organic foods ... I don't understand how an organic food can have something that you cannot make organically, which is agave. Go look how it's made, [00:23:00] the process involved in doing that. I just don't understand how that can happen in a sense.

But again, that said, a lot of health food stores are loaded with products with agave because it sounds healthy, agave. Are you having sugar? No, no, sugar's bad. I'm having agave. It sounds healthy. It's smart. In a lot of ways, that's really smart.

Dr. Martin Sr: We cooked their goose when they first come out because I ...

Dr. Martin Jr: I remember when people were mad at us.

Dr. Martin Sr: Yeah, they were mad. Remember getting some emails from people that ...

Dr. Martin Jr: I remember getting like ... [00:23:30] We have a tremendous community of people around us. We get so much positive feedback and we really enjoy interacting with the people around us. But one of the downsides of doing podcasts and we get a lot of downloads is we get some crazy people as well, who just don't like us.

Dr. Martin Sr: I can't understand that.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, you seem like a nice guy. We can say that it's sunny out, and they'd be arguing with us that it's raining. Some people, that's just how [00:24:00] they are. They wake up in the morning, and the first thing they say, "What can I get mad about today?" They just happen to see a post of something. So we had talked about agave a while ago, and they didn't like it. They were like, "No, agave's healthy."

Dr. Martin Sr: The agave police were out.

Dr. Martin Jr: But I think the gig's up now. I think most people know that that's not necessarily, but I still overhear people talking about it if I'm at a store. It's like, "Oh, it's got agave in it." It's like I feel like saying, "That's just like Latin [00:24:30] for bad sugar. You're just saying it a different way."

Dr. Martin Sr: And the alternative is in a limited, very, very limited, is true blue maple syrup. Like the real, real stuff. There's a lot of sugar in it, but it's got FOS, fructooligosaccharides, so it's prebiotic.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, it's still digested as a sugar, but it's got some added benefits. It's like honey. Honey's a sugar, but honey's [00:25:00] got some ...

Dr. Martin Sr: Especially unpasteurized honey.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, it's got some properties in it.

Dr. Martin Sr: But you gotta be ... Again, we live in a different world we live in a sugary world. So you gotta add it all up. Even the good, bad and ugly. You gotta add it up!

Dr. Martin Jr: Boy, if you took a food diary and add up the amount of sugar you eat in a day, it's hidden in there. It's amazing.

Dr. Martin Sr: People don't ... "Oh, I don't eat sugar." Well, you don't add sugar. It's not like you're taking teaspoons of sugar and adding it to your food. But I said, "You're fooling yourself." You're eating a lot of sugar in your diet.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, it's in everything. It's everywhere. [00:25:30] All right, so those are seven kind of foods that may seem healthy that aren't. I'll just run through them really quickly. Yogurt, that big one, granola bars or energy bars in general. Look at the ingredients in energy bars, and the sugar. Fruit smoothies, gluten-free or vegan foods, veggie chips, bottled green juices and agave, is another big one.

Well, we want to thank you for listening to this episode. If you have any questions, you can email us at info#martinclinic.com. If you have anything bad to say, [00:26:00] then you can email us at ... I'm just kidding. You can get a hold of us by email at info@martinclinic.com. If you're not a newsletter subscriber, go to our website, martinclinic.com and subscribe for our newsletter.

You can also you every Thursday morning. You do a Facebook Live.

Dr. Martin Sr: Upside down, sometimes.

Dr. Martin Jr: Sideways, upside down, dark, bright, every which way possible.

Dr. Martin Sr: But we still have fun.

Dr. Martin Jr: Yeah, it's a lot of fun and you get a lot of good interaction, so it's a great way for people to ask you questions as well. So you can go ahead and join you every Thursday [00:26:30] morning. So again, we want to thank you for listening. Have a great day.

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